twoleftfeet
11:57 Wed Dec 27
Re: ⚽ Arsenal v West Ham - Official Match Thread - Preview
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Has anyone noticed how obsessed daveyg is with the youth team 🤔
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Alwaysaniron
12:09 Wed Dec 27
Re: ⚽ Arsenal v West Ham - Official Match Thread - Preview
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Our record against this lot is not the best. I unfortunately can't see past our lot getting a right walloping here. We just don't set up right against them. Shame as I have grown to really dislike them recently (they were vanilla for me before the Rice thing) as their fans are so fucking noncy. Let's hope I am wildly off the mark.
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Hammer and Pickle
12:10 Wed Dec 27
Re: ⚽ Arsenal v West Ham - Official Match Thread - Preview
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No.
What’s wrong with mentioning the youth team?
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Sir Alf
12:44 Wed Dec 27
Re: ⚽ Arsenal v West Ham - Official Match Thread - Preview
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Against the better passing teams who press well and have good technicians we can never go “toe to toe”. It has to be the Moyesball “low block”’keeping in shape and sitting deep and relying on counters or set pieces. Nothing wrong with the fast counters because against “lesser teams” we can exploit a bad pass or them pushing forward too much etc.
However the very best ( rich 4 or 5 City, Liverpool, Arsenal and even Spurs, Chelsea in former years ) we will have to hope we don’t concede too early and have the “rub of the Green” so as to speak.
It will be the same against Arsenal. Moyes will rely on us staying narrow, deep and in shape to force them down the outside and restrict their chances. Basically nullify Sako and Martinelli and block of channels for Odegaard and Co. 20% possession and a passive midfield.
Unlikely to work but that’s what we will do and hope to get a quick counter with Kudus or Bowen exploiting one of Paquetas quick instinctive passes. It has been effective but far less likely against the very best teams.
At the root of our problems is obviously this Moyesball thinking or rectify for every game. We’ve never had or played a proper wide left midfielder under his reign. We have one at least but he never gets a minute ( Cornet). All this is to accommodate the lanky, painfully slow Soucek for the low block system. Assuming we are not getting the ball much we need his aerial ability in both boxes and Moyes sacrifices midfield because the brutal reality is Soucek adds nothing to it. Doesn’t touch it much and loses it as he’s easily pressed being so slow. He trundles back and marks space which has some value but is essentially a huge traffic cone.
While he is picked and midfield control sacrificed along with possession we will always be limited against better teams.
We might pull off a Spurs smash and grab or robbery but most likely a 2 or 3 goal defeat. None of us want that and wish we would “try” to match them but if you don’t pick a proper wide left midfield player or recruit one you will pick it perhaps suggest you don’t see having the ball as a priority
Long winded diatribe or ramblings as usual from me ( I have the Samaritans number for those of you who have got this far ) but away from home, against a fast, pressing Arsenal I see little hope. We get a result undeservedly is our best chance. I’d take it, we all would but it’s the reason why Steidten ultimately will replace Moyes. It’s limited.
*** takes deep breath, and returns to Xmas book “The art of boring the arse off people “ ***
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Manuel
2:17 Wed Dec 27
Re: ⚽ Arsenal v West Ham - Official Match Thread - Preview
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I don't like the term ''free hit'' much, it sounds weak, but in this case already being on 27 points and coming up against a top side away from home, it probably is. Just hope we have a go at them and minimum let them know they've been in a game. I expect us to lose, but there is always hope, what with our front line who can score pretty much from nothing.
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norwaytips
2:56 Wed Dec 27
Re: ⚽ Arsenal v West Ham - Official Match Thread - Preview
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Manuel……I think we have 30 points, not 27.
I doubt we’ll change our style and continue to rely on fast counter attacks. It works well, when the players are up for it. This is ‘just one of those ‘hope for the best’ games.
⚒⚒
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Side of Ham
4:17 Wed Dec 27
Re: ⚽ Arsenal v West Ham - Official Match Thread - Preview
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Very likely Rice will snuff out those counter attacks as he shows why he had to move on…but hey let’s be ok with that we got a shitload of money for him….modern football has us down as fodder for the big clubs….it’s even termed ‘being West Ham’….ffs
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Come On You Irons
5:38 Wed Dec 27
Re: ⚽ Arsenal v West Ham - Official Match Thread - Preview
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Manuel 2:17 Wed Dec 27
Re: ⚽ Arsenal v West Ham - Official Match Thread - Preview
I don't like the term ''free hit'' much, it sounds weak, but in this case already being on 27 points and coming up against a top side away from home, it probably is. Just hope we have a go at them and minimum let them know they've been in a game. I expect us to lose, but there is always hope, what with our front line who can score pretty much from nothing.
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Absolute loser mentality and you can't even get your facts right whilst hoisting the proverbial white flag. How embarrassing for you, Manuel.
As a top half side, we shouldn't be writing off games against anyone. Arsenal are beatable. We just have to play well and execute our game plan effectively.
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El Scorchio
9:51 Wed Dec 27
Re: ⚽ Arsenal v West Ham - Official Match Thread - Preview
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Everyone expects us to get nothing. We should be going there to attack and try to take three by taking a risk and being brave rather than grimly hang on for one.
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Rusta
12:14 Thu Dec 28
Re: ⚽ Arsenal v West Ham - Official Match Thread - Preview
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Hope we play with more intensity than we did the first 70 mins against Man U otherwise we'll get slaughtered
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Nutsin
12:27 Thu Dec 28
Re: ⚽ Arsenal v West Ham - Official Match Thread - Preview
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Fuck Arsenal.
3-2 win to us!
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solidbond
5:10 Thu Dec 28
Re: ⚽ Arsenal v West Ham - Official Match Thread - Preview
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Hope I’m wrong but I think our midfield will be given the runaround tonight.
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Sir Alf
5:23 Thu Dec 28
Re: ⚽ Arsenal v West Ham - Official Match Thread - Preview
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Any midfield containing Soucek will be passed around and thru. To press or match teams like Arsenal you have to press as a team and Soucek is simply too slow to be able to do that effectively. Only takes one player to not be any good at it and the gaps appear.
So it will be a very deep lying West Ham as we’ve seen many times before. Possession at best around 20% and very few chances other than perhaps one or two quick counters which we have to hope we can get otherwise it’s going to be set pieces required to gave any chance of scoring. That is the harsh reality but, as we saw against Spurs, it can sometimes mean a smash and grab win. On the other hand, as we saw against Villa, Fulham and Liverpool it dan sometimes result in a tonking when your midfield is literally chasing shadows.
But that’s what Moyes will do. As soon as we see Soucek starting as he always does, we know it’s “Alamo time”
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marty feldman
7:08 Thu Dec 28
Re: ⚽ Arsenal v West Ham - Official Match Thread - Preview
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Our midfield set up correctly is more than capable. Moyes is the issue . Zinchenko isn't a proper full back saw enough of him at man city to see that . Kudus could rinse him all night as long as he's played further enough forward to do it . And not that cowardly shite that was seen at anfield last week .
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Ron Eff
10:20 Thu Dec 28
Re: ⚽ Arsenal v West Ham - Official Match Thread - Preview
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I don’t want to be defeatist but our manager has never won against Arsenal away in the league in his career (or Chelsea, Liverpool, Man Utd).
On that basis, it’s hard to see that changing tonight. It’s not because he’s never had teams capable, it’s because of how he sets the team up. Damage limitation, hope to win from a set piece. These games are essentially write off’s for him. It’s astonishing with those stats he’s never changed approach and just swung the bat once or twice and gone toe to toe with them. Maybe tonight…
That’s not being anti-Moyes either, that’s just facts.
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fraser
10:51 Thu Dec 28
Re: ⚽ Arsenal v West Ham - Official Match Thread - Preview
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Moyes is winless in all 72 Premier League away fixtures as a manager against Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and Manchester United (D21, L51).
21 points in 72 games...
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ludo21
11:11 Thu Dec 28
Re: ⚽ Arsenal v West Ham - Official Match Thread - Preview
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Bowen, Paqueta and Kudus are more than capable of causing them problems, just need to actually get the ball to them and play with some intent.
I expect Moyes is already dusting off his ‘they’re just too good for us speech’ though.
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Sir Alf
11:58 Thu Dec 28
Re: ⚽ Arsenal v West Ham - Official Match Thread - Preview
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Ludo, Marty I’d agree with your opinion that they can cause problems but against the better teams they need to be getting enough of the ball and us springing fast counters which is basically the way we seem to score goals now our set pieces are being nullified.
But you have to be able to compete in midfield and get and keep the ball. Against the rich teams with great technicians and who all play the fast pressing tactics, we cannot do that and imo Bowen and Kudus will be starved of possession and closed down quickly. Soucek and Moyes tactics are a huge part of that problem. Nothing to not like about Soucek as a bloke and in a system where you sit deep and don’t have the ball his aerial abilities ( his only real strength ) has value. But it’s setting up to not have the ball. Soucek can’t press he’s a tortoise, the slowest in midfield in the division and cannot pass accurately enough or control it well enough.
Getting him out of the side is not a magic wand unless he’s replaced with a quality player but playing Paqueta out of position just to play him makes things worse still.
I’d be tempted to try Antonio wide left so Paqueta can play in his best position and also help Alvarez in the central area where JWP will struggle helping with defensive cover as it’s not his strength and Soucek won’t get near them or get dispossessed too easily.
I keep boring on about it. I apologise but it’s therapy for me to voice it every day. Soucek not starting will be progress but we need a wide left midfielder and that could have to wait until Moyes leave because in his 2 spells as manager he’s never played one in that position. The only one his got is let to rot without getting any minutes ( Cornet ). We will never know why
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dealcanvey
11:59 Thu Dec 28
Re: ⚽ Arsenal v West Ham - Official Match Thread - Preview
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‘’Moyes is winless in all 72 Premier League away fixtures as a manager against Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and Manchester United (D21, L51).
21 points in 72 games...’’
It’s that stat that lets Moyes down as a manger the most. The fact that after all those attempts he has never tried anything different to rectify what must be one of the worst stats of any premier league manager.
Play with some intent in these kind of fixtures would earn him some more respect amongst the fans. Pundits alike seem to overlook this stat mind.
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Russ of the BML
12:06 Thu Dec 28
Re: ⚽ Arsenal v West Ham - Official Match Thread - Preview
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dealcanvey 11:59 Thu Dec 28
Zero wins from 72 games.
21 points from a possible 216. That's a measly 9% points gained from those available. 91% of the points have gone elsewhere. It's a fucking tragic stat.
And for me, one that sums Moyes up perfectly. Too happy to concede to better opposition because he has the perfect excuse that the opposition is better. Instead of analysing and looking for a better way to improve that stat, he just accepts it. Its lazy management.
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Fauxstralian
12:09 Thu Dec 28
Re: ⚽ Arsenal v West Ham - Official Match Thread - Preview
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Sir Alf is right
Against a talented midfield that can carry the ball and pass Soucek is as much use as a training cone.
Arsenal with Odegaard & Rice will walk through our undermanned midfield and keep us pinned in.
Moyes will do what he has done in all his previous visits to 'big' teams and hand the initiative to them
Personally I'd replace Soucek with Fornals or even Kehrer to add some mobility and tell them to try and disrupt Odegaard & Rice rather than let them stroll about.
Watched the Arsenal game at Liverpool and Klopp got TAA to try and quickly get the ball to Salah to isolate him against Zinchenko who struggles when asked to defend.
Our only chance is to get SOME possession and get Kudus one on one in that possession.
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